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"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 02:46AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 18:33:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:   > After the inspection, weld the compressor using a gas tight "bead" of weld. > Replace the refrigerant.   > No problem for you, right?   :)

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 02:47AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 18:35:48 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:   > Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago, > and Danny totally ignored me. And ignored > my hints and reminders.   You mean this? http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jp

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 12 10:51PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 10:47 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> my hints and reminders.   > You mean this? > http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jp   "not found" is what the web page says.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 12 10:53PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 10:47 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> my hints and reminders.   > You mean this? > http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg   I added a g to the end of the URL, and got a picture. I can't comment on that, until you answer my question. -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 02:56AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 19:08:52 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:   > Actually, I don't think that you did. You probably meant to, but were > too pissed from his ignoring you.   I was wondering what his suggestion had been. He kept saying I was ignoring him, but I never saw (or remember seeing) his suggestion. Maybe it's there. Probably is.   Anyway, as a Hail Mary play, I tried the Supco RC0410 1/4-to-1/3 HP 120VAC "3n1 Start" Solid State Relay Overload Start Capacitor Combination (6.8A Maximum Continuous Amps): http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg   2. It easily hooked up to the refrigerator, and, in fact, was far easier than making the test jig (so, in hindsight, forget the test jig - just hook up one of these 3n1 Start combos): http://i.cubeupload.com/ja5XaK.jpg   Good news and bad news.   A. The first time I connected it, the compressor RAN! B. The second time I connected it, the compressor kicked off after 20 seconds (and the power cord got hot).   When it was running, the Ammeter read 1.5Amps! http://i.cubeupload.com/8YQ1wK.jpg   I let it run for about two minutes, and I could feel the output (thin) discharge tubing getting hot to the touch. The input tubing didn't get a chance to change temperature.   I told the wife it worked, so I unplugged it to show her that it starts up, and guess what?   The second time I plugged it in, the overload kicked in after 20 seconds, and the cord got noticably hot.   If I was confused before - I'm doubly confused now.   I'm gonna let it cool down a bit,

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 02:57AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 21:53:52 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:   > Think I remember at least one reminder. Well, > moot point. He's gone so far afield on so many > directions, there's no contacting him, now.   I think I tried *every* suggestion ever made in this thread.   Here's yours, but I don't remember it being suggested until today. http://i.cubeupload.com/ja5XaK.jpg

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 03:06AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 17:23:25 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:   > You should be able to get a replacement start cap for MUCH less than $100, > and just bypass the starting relay.   Funny thing is that the Sears country-wide prices are *far* (far!) lower than the prices at the local appliance shops here in the Silicon Valley! http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif   The run cap is $17.39 in that Sears USA parts diagram, but at the local San Jose parts stores, it was between $45 and $65 for those who had it in stock.   Interestingly, the relay is $45.17 in that Sears US diagram, and it was about $60 to $75 at the local parts stores that had it in stock.   Meanwhile, the Supco RC0410 1/4-to-1/3 HP 120VAC "3n1 Start" Solid State Relay Overload Start Capacitor Combination should be around $10, but I paid $29.50 for it at the local Appliance Parts Store. http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jp   > You will hear instantly if the compressor starts. > If it does, the compressor is OK, and the only piece left is the relay.   What do you make of this? a. The first time I plugged in the RC0410, the compressor started! b. After about two minutes, I wanted to show teh wife, and, in her presence, the second time I plugged it in, it overheated and turned off. http://i.cubeupload.com/ja5XaK.jpg   > Some time ago I got a run cap from a refrigeration > supply for $6. I expected it to be more.   Heh heh. It "is" more. In San Jose at least. I paid $29.50 for it today.   > And, if the compressor does not start with the new cap and the relay > bypassed, then you can be fairly sure the compressor cannot be salvaged. Ah, but what if the compressor starts the first time, and then fails to start the second time?   I'll try to get a video of this - but I am waiting for it to cool down (and for the wife to go to bed so she doesn't influence the test results). http://i.cubeupload.com/8YQ1wK.jpg

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 12 11:08PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 10:56 PM, Danny D. wrote: ... > seconds (and the power cord got hot).   > When it was running, the Ammeter read 1.5Amps! > http://i.cubeupload.com/8YQ1wK.jpg   That's fantastic!   > and the cord got noticably hot.   > If I was confused before - I'm doubly confused now.   > I'm gonna let it cool down a bit,   Refrigerators and AC's need to rest before being restarted. I think that the pressures in the system have to equalize, so that the compressor is not trying to start against too large a "head".   Normally this happens because when the thermostat turns it off, it's a while before the thermostat tells it to turn on again.

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 03:09AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 20:20:15 -0400, tom wrote:   > providing an additional boost to the compressor. 1/4 and 1/3 Horsepower > a.. 115-230VAC > So it looks like they are the same.   I asked two Appliance Parts Stores, and they agree that they're one and teh same, so, the guy who said that they're not in that thread must be wrong: http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg   > And no, never used one. Stuck compressors are very rare. Most of the time > the windings overheat and short. The arcing produces acids that ruin the > compressor.   It worked the first time! Then it failed the second time. :( http://i.cubeupload.com/ja5XaK.jpg   I'm more confused now than ever, but I will try again after it cools down.   > But for $16 why not give it a try?   > Can you take some more pictures of the start relay? Can you open the start > relay for inspection? It looks like it just snaps together.   Actually, it was $29.50 here in San Jose: http://i.cubeupload.com/8YQ1wK.jpg

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 03:16AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 23:08:07 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:   > compressor is not trying to start against too large a "head".   > Normally this happens because when the thermostat turns it off, it's a > while before the thermostat tells it to turn on again.   Thanks for answering so quickly, as I had egg all over my face after telling the wife that I was a veritable genius and that I fixed it for less than thirty bucks!   I'll let it cool down, and plug it back in, with the ammeter connected, and check the current. If it starts, I'll leave it running for a few hours!   I must admit - the information is conflicting - so I'm confused. Very confused.   a. The old equipment tested good (as far as I could tell) b. The jumper rig should have bypassed the relay (but not the OEM cap) c. All this 3n1 "hard-start kit" did was replace those two things   Maybe it's a "bigger" capacitor? http://i.cubeupload.com/8YQ1wK.jp   There's no mention on the package of how big the cap is, but physically, the combination unit is far beefier than the OEM unit. So I dunno... http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg   Do you think it could be as simple as the compressor just needed a "beefier" cap?   Why would it need a beefier cap?

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 03:21AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 22:53:09 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:   > I added a g to the end of the URL, and got > a picture. I can't comment on that, until > you answer my question.   Ooops. Mea culpa. Sorry about that missing "g".   It should have been: http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg   Ummmmm... what question?   But I have a question for you. How do you respond so quickly?   I have to sit down at the computer to even see a message, so, I don't see them in real time. Do you have something that goes to your phone?

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 12 11:24PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 11:16 PM, Danny D. wrote: ...   > Do you think it could be as simple as the compressor just needed a > "beefier" cap?   > Why would it need a beefier cap?   A more-capacitance cap would have a lower impedance and allow more current to flow. More current in a motor means more torque.   There is still the possibility that the original cap is defective. That the parts-place check did not measure capacitance, or if it did, it wrongly concluded that the capacitance that it measured was the needed value.

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 12 11:26PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 11:08 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote: > compressor is not trying to start against too large a "head".   > Normally this happens because when the thermostat turns it off, it's a > while before the thermostat tells it to turn on again.   Also, IIRC, users' manuals for AC's say to wait 3 minutes before trying to restart.

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 12 11:33PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 10:57 PM, Danny D. wrote:   > I think I tried *every* suggestion ever made in this thread.   > Here's yours, but I don't remember it being suggested until today. > http://i.cubeupload.com/ja5XaK.jpg   You never answered my question, and I never made any suggestions what to do. Other than suggesting you answer my question so we can move on.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 12 11:35PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 11:21 PM, Danny D. wrote: > How do you respond so quickly?   > I have to sit down at the computer to even see a message, so, I don't see > them in real time. Do you have something that goes to your phone?   Coincidence. I'm on the east coast, and spend a bit of time on the computer in the evenings.   What question? I only asked twice.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 12 11:36PM -0400 On 7/9/2016 4:49 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:   > Says you. I've worked on more than a few of > these, and the compressor was fine.   Not that Danny reads my posts, you see.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

"tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net>: Jul 12 11:38PM -0400 "Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:nm4bdd$ok9$1@news.mixmin.net... >> relay for inspection? It looks like it just snaps together.   > Actually, it was $29.50 here in San Jose: > http://i.cubeupload.com/8YQ1wK.jpg   As others have said you must let it set for about 20 minutes for the pressure between the high side and the suction side to equalize. Also, if the kit uses a PTC starter, that also must cool down to room temperature.

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 04:56AM On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 23:26:27 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:   > Also, IIRC, users' manuals for AC's say to wait 3 minutes before trying > to restart.   Good news, and odd news.   1. I let it cool down for 1/2 hour and then when I plugged the Supco RC0410 1/4-to-1/3 HP 120VAC "3n1 Start" Solid State Relay Overload Start Capacitor Combination unit in to the mains, the compressor started again!   2. I left the connections to the motor where they were, which seemed to match our assumption that the top was the COMMON, and the forward-facing bottom was the START and the rearward facing bottom was the RUN/MARK connection. http://i.cubeupload.com/YMMqW4.jpg   3. You'll notice I am not using the original power cord, so I have the rest of the frig (including condenser the fan) on its own power supply and the Supco RC0410 hard-start cap on its own power cord. http://i.cubeupload.com/yiOL3g.jpg   3. With the Ammeter on the 15Amp scale, when the compressor was running, the current on the black COMMON lead was about 3 amps. http://i.cubeupload.com/GLn0bK.jpg   4. To doublecheck, I checked the current on the input cord neutrals, which was also 3 Amps (not surprisingly): http://i.cubeupload.com/k7D1Th.jpg   5. When the compressor was starting, the current on the START lead jumped a bit (maybe double the 3 amps?) and then instantly settled down to zero amps (or very slightly above zero amps). http://i.cubeupload.com/5vR3jy.jpg   6. Then the compressor ran for about 10 or 20 minutes, getting very hot to the touch, where the output (thin) line was hot enough to burn my fingertips and even the input (thick) copper line was warm to the touch (and the refrigerator began to get noticeably cooler inside the doors).   7. After 10 or 15 or so minutes of running, the compressor began to hum instead of work causing 11 amps to flow through the COMMON lead, and then the relay clicked off (is that supposed to happen?). http://i.cubeupload.com/9TNB1Q.jpg   8. Then the compressor turned back on, after about 10 minutes, and worked for a much shorter period of time, before turning off again (maybe fewer than five minutes).   Is it normal for a compressor to shut off after getting very hot after working for only about 10 minutes?   Is it OK to have the frig temporarily on two power cords? a. One for the fan and the rest of the frig b. One just for the compressor

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Jul 12 03:24PM -0700 In article <MPG.31ef22418207f25b9896f1@news.east.earthlink.net>,   >I wish the government would make the companies list everything the put >into the products. Not being able to hold back as far as a trade >secret. I don't care what percent, but do care about what is in it.   There are a whole lot of people who would scream "Government over-reach!" for any such attempt. It would be seen as a serious blow to research and innovation... in effect, you'd be forced to reveal the result of your (possibly-expensive) research to all of your competitors, in order to put any chemical product on the market.   From what I read in the documentation, the MSDS rules were tailored to meet the needs for which they were designed... materials safety. Even in the case of a trade secret, they require that the manufacturer spell out the dangers, materials-handling rules, fire-fighting rules, permissible exposure levels, and so forth. They also require that the manufacturer disclose the actual chemical composition to medical authorities in case of medical emergencies (although this can be under terms of nondisclosure).   Wanting to know just what's in a spray, so you can tell how it may affect any particular sort of materials? I don't blame you at all for that, but it's not a safety issue... it's a product usability issue. OSHA doesn't appear to consider this relevant to the rules for MSDS.   I think the conventional answer would probably be "That's an issue for you and the product manufacturer to discuss, privately. If you don't like their answer, don't buy their product."

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Jul 12 04:39PM -0700 > > acid. Not mentioned on the can. This is Deoxit D5. The can says it > > protects surfaces so doubt this is a copper eating compound.   > When I was working overseas in a country where all products were required to have all contents listed in clear terms, Cramolin Red had a paper label on it that stated: Ingredients: Oleic Acid 5% Petroleum hydrocarbons and propellants 95%.   The red was a CLEANER, was labeled as a rinse-off-after product. The contact enhancer was the blue, apply-and-forget. The enhancer works well, but the patent has expired, so Caig literature is rather obscure on the ingredient labels. DeOxit Shield S has NATO stock number NSN 6850-00-450-5821, and hasn't changed since that number was issued... 47 years ago?

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jul 12 05:01PM -0700 On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:39:22 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:   >so Caig literature is rather obscure on the ingredient labels. DeOxit Shield S has >NATO stock number >NSN 6850-00-450-5821, and hasn't changed since that number was issued... 47 years ago?   Yep. I took some photos of the labels. Use your own judgment as to whether it should be rinsed off, or if you like corrosion. <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Cramolin%20R-100L/> I'll find a tripod to take better photos later today. It's difficult to get good depth of field on a cylindrical object with a junk camera.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 12 05:16PM -0700 This is one of those things for which there is no easy answer. But I'll bring up something here :   Slick 50.   For those overseas or simply not into cars, Slick 50 was an oil additive for higher mileage cars that improved performance ad extended the life of the engine. It was effective, in fact orders of magnitude more effective than anything that was on the market.   Its effects were measurable, more compression and power. Easier starting. Sometimes people claimed it made it run cooler but I don't personally know of that ad don't really see how unless the oil pressure was so low before it was about to blow anyway.   The secret to Slick 50's success was PTFE resin, which is a for of Teflon actually. When put int the crankcase it coated and impregnated yous bearing surfaces, valve guides, piston rings and of course the gears in the oil pump.   The had a pretty good run with their patent, I don't remember how many years. During that time they had PTFE resin locked up and nobody else could sell it. They charged like fifty bucks a quart for it. And people swore by it, they were happy to pay that because the shit simply is that good.   The patent ran out eventually and others came out with PTFE resin based engine treatments. Some people stuck with the original and even though they did the price went down. They no longer had a lock on the market.   When it comes to Deoxit, people make the mistake of thinking it is removig the oxidation. It is not. The active ingredient actually removes the oxidant (usually oxygen) from the metal. A chemist calls this type of chemical a reducer. They come in many forms, but for this application you need one that is totally non conductive, or at least becomes that way, and that is safe for plastics.   There are pots, sliders specifically, I have noticed on equalizers that you just can't use anything on. Some parts of them are that cheap white almost translucent plastic, I don't know if it is a type of nylon or styrene or what, but ANYTHING makes them sticky. And I mean anything. I tried TF based cleaner (back when you could get it), LPS2, WD40 and who knows what else. I am starting to think the propellant in the can is what attacks the stuff.   O late, I am having a problem with rotary encoders. Clean it and a few days later it is again operating erratically. I looked for them online and they seem to be like $20+, and not even optical. I can tell on the scope, when the pulse drops to zero it really is zero.   But we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. All of the units need a factory modification before they can be shipped or they are all going to fry. I have to burn that bridge first. At what I make now, I'll get around to it when I damn well please.   Trade secrets are bad enough in this field. So what I am getting is that this stuff is so secret that they won't even patent it ? If they patented it you can get the formula.   The REAL problem is when they apply it to foods. Realize that in this country they do not tell you they put a virus in milk that attacks the bacteria that makes it go sour. Extends the shelf life. I know there is zero evidence of this on the net but you can prove it yourself. Just leave some milk out of the fridge and let it go bad. It no longer goes sour, it goes bitter.   And these milk companies in all their good hearts tried to gewt milk reclassified as a soft drink so they could add aspartame WITHOUT LABELING IT. They can already add anything they want but they have to label it. they wanted to sneak that shit into your kids without you knowing it. For what reason ? Best I can figure is to give them a sweet tooth sell more sweetener later.   And then there was a push to make it illegal to label food as "NON-GMO", their case ? That it would hurt the sales of GMO foods. And don't give me this "they are safe" shit, you cannot possibly know that. What's more, since there is more yield per acre this garbage is almost completely devoid of nutrients.   Trade secrets. This is not an easy issue because if you force complete disclosure that removes alot of the incentive. You might be able to enforce intellectual property rights here, but there is nothing stopping someone in China from copying the product and even if they can't sell it here, they can cost you the (rest of the) world market.   Maybe there is no answer and it will be a point of contention until we are extinct.

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Nicholas Randall Forystek <nforystek@outlook.com>: Jul 12 02:17AM -0500 ...........................................................

JW <none@dev.null>: Jul 12 05:12AM -0400 On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:17:21 -0500 Nicholas Randall Forystek   >...........................................................   Dot's nice.

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