| Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 10:45PM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote: > Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular > towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your > area? Summary of the freebie app selected after a few days of testing. I've dumped the freeware version of Network Signal Info because it kept hanging, and opted to use as my primary real-time app "Network Cell Info Lite" (The best logging app was NetMonitor). One nice thing about Network Signal Info payware is that it reports not only the current (aka registered) cell, but also the neighbor cell strengths. http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo Here are some screenshots of today's scan to help you see what it reports. The good news is that I've brought my signal strength in the mountains, miles from the nearest T-Mobile tower, up from around minus ninety to minus one hundred decibels to consistently better than minus fifty-five to minus sixty-five decibels (which is astounding!). Here are the results of a scan this morning from my new "gsm" folder: http://i.cubeupload.com/lgDafB.jpg In this scan are the unique cell tower identification numbers: http://i.cubeupload.com/5H7qmX.jpg The second tab shows the ever-changing raw data in text format: http://i.cubeupload.com/3gMofW.jpg While the third tab shows a time-sequence graph showing consistency: http://i.cubeupload.com/3rDsHX.jpg There are multiple plots of multiple types of signal strengths: http://i.cubeupload.com/4HQqh8.jpg And a quick table of DATA ON/OFF connection percentage statistics: http://i.cubeupload.com/NQ0xJU.jpg You can export the entire database in multiple file formats: http://i.cubeupload.com/W1AAaK.jpg And there is a nice summary page of the device & sim card information: http://i.cubeupload.com/hCXKXJ.jpg I may end up getting the payware if I can't find a freeware app that reports the neighbor cell strengths, which would also be useful information. But there are plenty of freeware apps to explore, e.g., this MIT app: http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/CellTracker.shtml |
| Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 19 02:07AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote: > Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular > towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your > area? This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann. QUESTION: Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification? (Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?) OBSERVATION: 1. I can range my cellular signal strength by almost half a million times: http://i.cubeupload.com/zN4Dkb.jpg 2. I ran an experiment, starting with a stead very good signal strength: http://i.cubeupload.com/TPLLXF.jpg 3. Then I unplugged, one by one, the two micro towers in my house: http://i.cubeupload.com/ciKH3h.jpg Interestingly, when I unplugged the router-connected micro tower, I could see the unique cell tower ID change immediately to a set of cell towers that are known to be within a few miles of me. Yet, when I unplugged the cellular booster, the signal dropped, but the cell towers simply went to a much larger set of cell towers, some of which are known to be ten or fifteen miles away. However, I could still see the set of towers in the prior step in the makeup. My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold: a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id. b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id. Does that make sense? |
| Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>: Feb 19 02:31AM > I knew how you got the decibel RSSI (received signal strength indication), > but the question was how do you know which "tower" you're getting your > current signal from. I haven never cared to check. If I unplug the t-mbile cellspot, my signal in the basement drops significantly and I lose calls. I don't care which tower or micro tower I am connected to. > So just having a decibel reading doesn't tell me *which* tower I'm > connected to (since there are at least three or more to choose from). So? Who cares? > The good news is that my decibel readings are now in the -50dBm to -60dBm > range (instead of the minus 90 to minus 100 decibel range as they were > before I hooked up the micro towers!). That's all that matters. -- The real American folksong is a rag -- a mental jag A rhythmic tone for the chronic blues |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 07:38PM -0800 On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:09:46 -0800, The Real Bev >> On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 14:27:15 -0800, The Real Bev >> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: > Just how much can a person make from app-advertising? You keep thinking of an Android App. This is a hardware based direction finder that has a built in computah to do the number crunching. No smartphone or Android gizmo involved. Therefore, I won't be selling apps on the Play Store. "Google Play app revenue up 82% in Q4 2016, 60% growth for the App Store" <http://www.gsmarena.com/google_play_app_revenue_up_82_in_q4_2016_60_growth_for_the_app_store-news-22759.php> Google Play store collected $3.3Billion in revenue. Last year, the split was 70% Google and 30% developer. Therefore the developers collected about: $3.3 billion / 0.7 * 0.3 = $1.4 billion This year, the split is 85% Google and 15% developer, which indicates that Google is getting greedy, developers were making to much money, or both. Blundering onward, the Play store has 2.6 million apps available. About half are free, so that's 1.3 million apps. Average revenue per app would be: $1.4 billion revenue / 1.3 million apps = $1,100 revenue/app/year Not enough to support product development. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 07:48PM -0800 On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:14:27 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong >Beta is the Southeast FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower >Gamma is the Southwest FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower >http://www.evdoforums.com/thread15374.html I dialed #878# and got: "Welcome to Verizon Wireless. Your call cannot be completed as dialed..." >cell id. Also, the newer Android APIs now seem to expose the frequency >bands: >http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/cellular_repeater_inside.shtml Nice article. I think there is a way of extracting the sector but I don't know what it might be and am too lazy to work it out right now. My leaky roof and irate customers come first. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 18 10:52PM -0500 In article <514iachpen7vqkn4thndi5i91ls58rvh96@4ax.com>, Jeff > app would be: > $1.4 billion revenue / 1.3 million apps = $1,100 revenue/app/year > Not enough to support product development. the average isn't what matters. a quality app can be *very* profitable. |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 08:14PM -0800 On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:31:53 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong >http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/images/Screenshot_2013-04-16-15-29-00 >CellTracker: >http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/CellTracker Nice app, but it does NOT show the lat-long of the local Verizon cell site. See attached screen grab: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/CellTracker.jpg> Celltracker for Android 5.0 on a Moto G v1 phone running Android 5.1. Note from the screengrab that the GPS is on and running. The "WIFI Lat-Long" is the location of my house, not the local cell site. I don't know where my Lat-Long came from (probably Google Maps database). -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>: Feb 19 01:38AM -0500 On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 22:52:40 -0500, nospam wrote: > the average isn't what matters. a quality app can be *very* profitable. So can a lottery ticket, and it's easier to develop. Cheers, -- tlvp -- Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP. |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 11:13PM -0800 On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:07:16 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong >> towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your >> area? >This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann. Why me? >Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification? >(Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?) By "booster" are you referring to a bi-directional amplifier like products from Wilson: <http://www.wilsonpro.com/residential-cell-phone-signal-boosters> or Wi-Ex (zBoost)? <https://www.signalboosters.com/zboost-signal-boosters> I so, they repeat exactly the original signals both incoming and outgoing. What you hear is the tower ID. The device does not generate any new data or belch a new tower ID. However, if you're referring to a Femtocell or similar internet connected microcellular device, the answer is yes, they do have their own unique ID. >My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold: >a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id. Yep. >b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id. Yep. >Does that make sense? Yep. How far away do you think the strongest (or nearest) T-mobile cell tower is located from your test location? Any possibility that one of your neighbors might have a T-mobile microcell box that you're hearing? I'm suspicious of the rather strong tower signal. Back of the envelope calculation: +27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site +10dB My guess of the panel antenna gain -53dBm Receive signal level from your test. Path loss = 27 + 10 + 53 = 90dB Calculating the distance where the path loss would be -90dB at 700MHz: <http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss> is about 0.7 miles or about 4,000 ft. The cell tower would need to be rather close to your location for that to work. Like I said, I'm suspicious of what you're measuring. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 19 03:22PM On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 16:29:17 -0500, nospam wrote: >> As far as anyone can tell, it's impossible to get the cell id tower from >> the phone on an iOS device, > wrong. Certainly, technically competetent iOS users have tried over the years... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13399659/get-cellid-mcc-mnc-lac-and-network-in-ios-5-1 https://blog.hqcodeshop.fi/archives/253-iPhone-cell-Field-Test-mode.html http://www.ahmadrifky.com/ict-stuff/iphone-measuring-your-carrier-operator-signalbandwidth-license-and-location-in-just-a-split-seconds https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4995211?start=0&tstart=0 Even iOS app developers have tried... https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/21018 https://sourceforge.net/p/dpfdelphiios/tickets/232/ What do you know that they don't know? |
| Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 19 03:32PM On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:31:01 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote: > I haven never cared to check. If I unplug the t-mbile cellspot, my > signal in the basement drops significantly and I lose calls. You are perfectly correct in that simply unplugging a single micro tower will likely cause the signal strength to "fluctuate". The signal strength, however, can easily be similar since it fluctuates normally anyway, e.g., all my neighbors also have micro towers (basically everyone has them out here). Worse, when I unplug my booster, it takes about fifteen minutes for the cell signal to set itself up, and, even then, it seems that the booster simply "passes through" the cell tower ID it is boosting (I need to research that further though). So, unplugging it in order to figure out if I'm connected to it, is problematic. However far worse than that, when I unplug my router-connected micro tower, it takes multiple hours for the thing to set itself up. T-Mobile says that it can take up to two hours, but I found out that it takes even longer than that, as last night I literally fell asleep before the thing started taking on my cell phone. I had to look at the log file in the morning. BTW, for Jeff Liebermann, I found another app that logs the connections, so, that's three apps which log all the towers connected to, only one of which (NetMonitor) allows you to modify how that log appears (which is a nice feature) to the user in real time. Some logs save as text, others as CSV, so I'll write up separately for you and others to benefit, which apps were best for logging the cell tower IDs. > I don't care which tower or micro tower I am connected to. Most people don't care which tower they're connected to; however, if they were debugging their connection, they'd start to care. In my case, T-Mobile only allows one device, which is what I found out when the second device tried to use the same 911 address as the first device, so, they "may" ask for one of the devices back (I had asked for a third device, but that is currently out of the question). If I have to give one device back, it is helpful to know which device worked best, and for that, waiting two or more hours between tests is crazy when I can just look at the unique cell id of the router-based device to tell if that's what I'm connecting to. >> So just having a decibel reading doesn't tell me *which* tower I'm >> connected to (since there are at least three or more to choose from). > So? Who cares? If my good signal strength is actually due to my neighbor's micro tower, how would I know? If I have to send back one device to T-Mobile, which device would I send back? >> range (instead of the minus 90 to minus 100 decibel range as they were >> before I hooked up the micro towers!). > That's all that matters. Not really. If T-Mobile wants one of their devices back, which one do I give them? |
| nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 19 10:43AM -0500 In article <o8cd8h$cep$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong > >> the phone on an iOS device, > > wrong. > Certainly, technically competetent iOS users have tried over the years... and have succeeded: <https://ociotec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/proveedor_telefonia.png> <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C29OaIVXAAEPTMG.jpg> |
| nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 19 10:43AM -0500 In article <5ywbkrysutvt$.1a5ko8xbsdqeh.dlg@40tude.net>, tlvp > > the average isn't what matters. a quality app can be *very* profitable. > So can a lottery ticket, and it's easier to develop. Cheers, -- tlvp whooosh. |
| Steve Kraus <screen@SPAMBLOCKfilmteknik.com>: Feb 19 07:38AM -0600 I've gotten curious about the accuracy or not of these. I am speaking of the motor-driven timers with a 24-hour dial on the front. Obviously not something someone would use where precision is required so this is purely an academic question. I was under the impression that these were driven by tiny sync motors and therefore as accurate as the power line frequency just like a traditional electric wall clock. Not easy to set precisely but should repeat nearly to the second day after day. Or so I thought. Recently, using a timer on Christmas lights, I noticed variation as much as a minute. But that was a newer timer and I don't know what kind of motor it has. I know on the older ones, the motor rotor could randomly start in either direction but there was device in gear train that would kick it to reverse if it happened to start by running in reverse. Doesn't that sound like a sync motor? So for a few days I've been running a little experiment. I have a number of timers of various vintages. I ran each to where it just kicked on then unplugged it. I put the group on a couple of outlet strips and powered them at the same time, each hooked to an indicator lamp. At the expected time each night I put a smartphone running an NTP-connected clock app nearby and video the scene with another phone so as to produce a record of when each turned on. I was expecting them to switch on a few seconds before the designated time (based on how many seconds elapsed during the setup adjustment between the timer triggering and my unplugging it) but the variation has been much greater, nearly a minute early on one but generally all over the map and different each night and not in unison as though the power line frequency* had varied. Maybe this is from mechanical variations from the switch part of the timer snapping over. Or maybe they are not sync motors after all. * I think the utilities used to make up for lost or gained time keeping it to ą5 seconds. Now I think it's ą25 seconds. That doesn't account for the variation I see though it could be some of it. Again, there is no practical point to this; a digital timer can be used where precision is needed. I am just curious. |
| Jim Mueller <wrongname@nospam.com>: Feb 19 12:13AM On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 12:49:59 -0600, oldschool wrote: snip > For those of you who work on a lot of this tube equipment, does it seem > that 140V B+ is low? It does to me, with 450V AC coming from the power > transformer, Probably bad electrolytics, at least for the first guess. If this had been a receiver, there would be a loud hum. snip I will have to check the tubes too, but I dont have any > tube tester yet. (I have one somewhere). [whatever happened to the good > ol' drug store testers] :) snip There's one here: http://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/ but it is hidden by other things in the picture in "About Us". It's probably out of your driving range too :) -- Jim Mueller wrongname@nospam.com To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman. Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 18 06:03PM -0800 Jim Mueller wrote: > > transformer, > Probably bad electrolytics, at least for the first guess. If this had > been a receiver, there would be a loud hum. ** Please read the thread. 1. There is a baby size transformer that put out 250-0-250 with no load. 2. The AC voltage peaks are clipped under load so the peak value is about 270V. 3. There is a 6X5 rectifier that drops 50V off as well. 4. Then there is a 5000 ohms resistor before the filter electro that causes another a large voltage drop. A voltage of 140V on the electro about right, the trick of being that it allows just one 16uF part to do the job. ..... Phil |
| Jim Mueller <wrongname@nospam.com>: Feb 19 12:01AM On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:14:26 -0600, Foxs Mercantile wrote: > Hot air gun. > Heat it up until the wax runs, hold the tube and pull the guts out by > the lead. snip You can also use a toaster oven at the lowest setting that will melt the wax or use a heat lamp. I have used both methods successfully. BTW Aerovox and Cornell Dubilier are both still in business: http://www.aerovox.com/ http://www.cde.com/ Other old time names that are still with us include: Illinois Capacitor http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ Vishay http://www.vishay.com/. They have also acquired a number of other old brands. Bourns http://www.bourns.com/, who also acquired old brands. Carling http://www.carlingtech.com/ E-T-A https://www.e-t-a.com Eaton http://www.eaton.com/ Littelfuse http://www.littelfuse.com/ Amphenol http://www.amphenol.com/ Brim http//brimelectronics.com/ Keystone http://www.keyelco.com/ Molex http://www.molex.com/ Pomona http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/ Switchcraft http://www.switchcraft.com/ 3M http://www.3m.com/ Vector https://www.vectorelect.com/ Mueller http://muellerelectric.com/ Grayhill http://www.grayhill.com/ Bliley http://www.bliley.com/ CTS http://www.ctscorp.com/ International Crystal http://www.icmfg.com/ Jan Crystals http://www.jancrystals.com/ Bud http://www.budind.com/ Davies Molding http://www.daviesmolding.com/ Premier Metal Product http://premiermetal.com/ Ohmite http://www.ohmite.com/ Triad http://www.triadmagnetics.com/ Stancor http://www.stancor.com/ Hoyt http://hoytmeter.com/ Simpson http://www.simpsonelectric.com/ Triplett http://www.triplett.com/ Dialight http://www.dialight.com/ Amperite http://www.amperite.com/ Coto Technology http://cotorelay.com/ Guardian http://www.guardian-electric.com/ EBY http://www.ebyelectro.com/ Daburn http://www.daburn.com/ Pico Electronics http://www.picoelectronics.com/ Staco http://www.stacoenergy.com/ Alpha Wire http://www.alphawire.com/ Belden http://www.belden.com/ I excluded companies whose names are still around but have obviously been acquired by another company. It's possible that some of the ones I listed have been merged but it isn't obvious from their web site. I'm sure that there are more old timers than these but I only did a quick search. Another old time company, this time Japanese, but still around: Calrad http://www.calrad.com/ -- Jim Mueller wrongname@nospam.com To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman. Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us. |
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