| "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <burkesgurlz@std-girls.com>: Nov 04 10:33AM -0700 On 11/3/2017 7:42 PM, RS Wood wrote: > and fluids, but not the six things above. > What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never > done? Dork |
| The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Nov 04 11:06AM -0700 On 11/04/2017 06:00 AM, RS Wood wrote: > I reflected that the car still works fine without the bolt, but there is no > way they put that bolt there in the first place if it didn't do anything. > He didn't believe me. Sounds like the Ford dealership jerk who replaced the starter on the 69 LTD. One loose bolt, one dropped on top of the starter and one completely missing. He was partially right, it ran for a couple of years afterward. -- Cheers, Bev I'd rather trust the guys in the lab coats who aren't demanding that I get up early on Sundays to apologize for being human. -- Captain Splendid |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:16PM rbowman wrote: > After replacing the joints I aligned my pickup with a tape measure and > plumb bob. I was not at all confident so i took it to a tire shop. It > was within spec and didn't need any tweaking. Each has a hurdle that has to be overcome, both in measuring and in adjusting. For example, adjusting toe is easy (just spin the tierod ends), but the wheels have to slip under load, which isn't so easy. Measuring TOTAL toe would be easy if you can clear the undercarriage, but that's not really how the manufacturer usually specs it. Measuring individual toe (to an imaginary centerline) isn't all that easy, is it? How do you do it? Then there is the problem of specs. The toe spec is often in degrees whereas we measure in inches, so you have to think in order to convert. Likewise, camber is easy to measure with a plumb bob, but you have to clear the sidewall of the tire and then calculate from the centerline of the tire, so, you have to take precise measurements and then calculate an angle from those measurements after first clearing the sidewall somehow. Caster is the hardest to measure directly, and I don't think we can measure caster directly in a home setup. Can we? So caster will take thinking, which, after all, I think is the hardest part of an alignment. All the other jobs anyone can do - but alignment takes thinking because of the kinds of issues above, most important being that the spec is never (Murphy's Law) in the form of what you can measure directly. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:16PM >>when my wife asks me "Is that the way it's _supposed_ to be done?". > The cans with the blue head and the wire you can see in the gap seem > to have the best fan pattern. This is good to know! I've seen this type. Never understood them. Then again, _every_ can of paint I have ever used is really only a single-use item (just like many instant glues seem to be) because of the clogging up (and yes, I clean them out upside down). > stop painting before you stop moving. It is pretty much the same with > a gun. Then remember you are layering the paint on, you are not trying > to cover it completely in one coat. I envy you that you've done it. How many spray cans would an entire car take? |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM rbowman wrote: > I've had problems getting the bead to seat correctly with tube tires but > with those you can deflate, beat on it, curse, inflate, rinse and repeat > until it goes. I'm glad to hear nobody scream that we're all gonna die if we do any work at home! The reason people don't do these jobs isn't that we're all gonna die from nuclear radiation if we do our own stuff. I don't know anyone who does their own car tires but many motorcyclists do their own bike tires and everyone does their own wheelbarrow and bicycle tires. Tires don't have the same problem as alignment because, other than safety, you don't have to think all that much to do tires correctly. Assuming you have a decently flowing air compressor I don't think seating the bead is the issue usually although we've all had all sorts of times when we just couldn't get something to seat, so I'm sure it happens. But they're designed to seat with air so if we have air, we should be able to seat the bead. I think the far greater issue with doing tires at home is that you need special tools that greatly extend your muscle power and worse - you will never have the tools to do the dynamic balance. So I don't see how you can ever do car tires right at home because you can't finish the job right. For some reason, motorcycle tires work just fine without dynamic balancing. That's an enigma to me. Why would bicycle and motorcycle tires work just fine without dynamic balancing while car tires require dynamic balancing to work right? |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM > the tire and take out the panel in the wheel well. It is a straight > shot then. On the prelude the strut support, part of the unibody, is > in the way. Well, if replacing a timing belt is that easy, then maybe it's not so much a crime that they put a 60k-mile part inside an interference engine. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM > A couple sheets of tin with grease between works in a pinch for slip > plates - I always wondered about how to support the car on its weight and still get the wheels to slip. I've seen the greased tin and the linoleum tiles, and even the newspaper trick - but I always wondered how well they work. The other problem is measuring to the imaginary centerline. > and for camber a simple square and calculator works just > fine. Camber is pretty easy to measure if you have some way of keeping the tire out of the picture. Usually that means bolting something to the wheel that allows the digital level to stick out away from the bulging tire. So I think the hardest part of camber is the setup has to be bolted to the wheel (although I've seen ways to do camber with just a plumb bob and a ruler). > Toe in with a few sticks and a tape measure - or a simple laser > level (bubble level with a laser built into the one end - used to > "extend" the wheel angle instead of using sticks) works pretty good. I think toe is easy to measure but hard to change. For measuring, you just have to get around the fact that the engine and suspension gets in the way of a straight-line calculation (as you did with the laser suggestion above). Yet you still have to have to reduce the friction when you turn the tierod ends with the weight of the car (as you discussed above with the greased plates). > Calculating caster is a bit more difficult without the proper tools, > but a mathematical genius (that's not me) could figure it out with the > same square, ruler, and calculator. Here is, I think, the REAL reasons most of us don't do alignment at home. The actual twisting of the bolts is pretty easy. Even the toe plate and camber plates are easy if we purchase them. So are the tape measures and digital levels. I think the HARD part of alignment is that there is ALWAYS a need to convert from inches to degrees and from imaginary centerline to actual centerline, and from trigonometry if we don't measure the actual item we have the spec for so we have to calculate to derive the value. To summarize, the hardest part of the alignment, I think, is that you have to THINK, whereas almost every other job we discussed, you don't have to think all that much (other than about basic safety, for example, when compressing springs). Alignment is a THINKING man's game. > The laser level will do the tracking just fine, and a digital > protactor or electronic level would make things easier. I don't have a laser anything but I won't disagree with you that extending a measurement to the wall 50 feet away can be useful to measure small degrees. For example, toe could be specified as 1/2 degree, which is easy to measure if you extend a line from the wheel to the wall 50 feet away but which is really hard to measure six inches from the centerline of the wheel itself. My point is that the TOOLS to MEASURE alignment are more and more in our grasp at a reasonable price. Even the toe plates and camber bolting to the wheel are within our prices. The hurdle to alignment, I think, is that it's a THINKING man's game, more so than any other job we're talking about. I don't have the skills myself. Or so I think. :) > spec" doesn't mean it will go straight down the road and won't wear > tires. Tayloring the caster and camber leads is part science, and > part witchcraft. I agree with you that alignment is a THINKING man's game, quite unlike all the other things we talked about. Sure it takes thinking to diagnose a slipping clutch or to diagnose an emissions problem or to diagnose an electrical system anomaly but it doesn't usually take a whole lot of thinking to just replace the parts once you've figured out which ones broke (and most people just throw parts at any job anyway which is how a lot of things get fixed). With alignment, you have to THINK, especially if, as you noted, you're aiming to get a performance value out of changing a value such as rear camber for cornering or trying to increase the oversteer for handling. In summary, I see HUGE HURDLES to alignment at home, but those hurdles have very little to do with measuring or changing the values. Here are the first half of my hurdles to doing a home alignment. 1. I need a toe-measuring tool that clears or avoids the undercarriage 2. I need toe plates that allow for slip of the tire under load 3. I need a camber setup on the wheel that clears or avoids the sidewall Here are the second half. 4. I need the specs in a form that I can measure or calculate 5. I need to figure out the imaginary centerline 6. I need KNOWLEDGE because #4 will always be in something I can't measure directly (Murphy's law of alignment specs) so I will have to calculate the answer. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM > The 69 Dart wasn't quite as radical but would do 104 all day long > (225 slant six) Ah yes. You reminded me. I also replaced a Holley 4-barrel carburetor! It was fun to watch how the accelerator pump worked squirting inside, how the throttle plate worked way down below, and how the choke plate on top worked! Is there a car sold today that uses a carb? Probably not. So that's a skill set along with dwell that we all have, but which isn't all that useful anymore. The kids that are 30 and 40 years old today probably don't even know what a "condensor" is........ |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM > A GOOD tech cares as much as you do - mabee more - because a poor job > reflects badly on him and can cost him BIG TIME if he gets a bed > reputation. I can't disagree that a good PERSON cares as much or more than you do. But you have to agree that there are people who care more about getting vehicles through the door than doing the job right. If they can skip a step or save a minute, they will, but that doesn't mean that they did a better job. It just means they did a faster job. At home, you're never trying to do the job fast. > I cared more about most of my customers' vehicles than they did for > the 25+ years I was actively in the trade. This may be true since you saw lots of abuse I'll bet. I'll bet the people NOT on this newsgroup don't even think about their engines all that much. If they took a car to the shop for a cooling system overhaul, I'll bet they're not going to look to see if all the bolts that came out went back in, for example. > And "redline" isn't necessarily the best or any better for your > application/ use than what they put in. Fair enough. Some things matter. Some don't. I know that with some things though, the "standard" application isn't as good as the "better" application, but for gear lubes, it probably only needs to be GL-4 80W90 and that's it (or whatever the car maker specified). So, a $5/quart GL-4 80W90 is as good as a $20/quart GL-4 80W90 gear oil. I don't know clutches but there must be "standard" and "better" clutches, aren't there? How do you know what the shop puts in by default? > Or they might. You just need the right shop, and the right > technician. That's understood where a guy who tells me that the bolt isn't necessary isn't necessarily the right technician, is he? |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM rickman wrote: > anytime soon. The parts that have been repaired often were not repaired > right so some have needed repairing more than once, but otherwise the truck > is very sound. You make a good point which I don't know the answer to. In my kid days, plastic toys did not exist (transistor radios didn't exist either), so our Tonka toys were rubber wheels and steel bodies. Nowadays, if you leave a kid's toy car outside, the sun alone will destroy it within a year or two. So they certainly don't build *some stuff* the way they used to. However ... cars *seem* to be different. Are they? My Chrysler's and Dodges days (in the olden days, we had brand loyalties that sprang from the brand loyalties of our fathers) showed me that a tuneup was needed every year, bias-ply tires lasted something like 20K miles, and, as you said, the interior was shot by the time the engine went. And that was in the days before plastic bumpers and plastic headlights (they were real glass bulbs in those days). But yet, it seems to me, cars last forever now. In those days, 100K miles was a lot. Now, it seems, 200K miles is approaching a lot. Do they really make cars better but nothing else is better? How can that be? |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM rbowman wrote: > maintenance history on the car and assumed it had never been replaced. > iirc, the belt was around $40 and the job took a couple of hours. The > biggest problem was the limited space. To me, it's a double crime to put a belt inside an interference engine, even more than the original crime of putting 60K-mile part inside an engine in the first place. If you're gonna put a 60,000-mile part inside an engine, then you should at least make it easy to access. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 04 06:17PM rbowman wrote: > okay but it's been a long time. Gas is more versatile and works anywhere > you can drag the tanks but the inexpensive point and shoot wire machines > do make life easy over stick welding. Definitely pros and cons to gas and stick welding. I have both. The arc welding takes a skill that is difficult with crappy 220V equipment, where I tend to have the ugliest beads you've ever seen, and where I "stick" to the metal all too often. Then again, with thin plate such as that used on a vehicle, I tend to burn through with the gas welding. In the end, it's a skill set that is useful, but difficult to master. |
| The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Nov 04 11:25AM -0700 On 11/04/2017 11:17 AM, RS Wood wrote: > That's an enigma to me. > Why would bicycle and motorcycle tires work just fine without dynamic > balancing while car tires require dynamic balancing to work right? My guess -- weight and speed are insufficient to cause problems. -- Cheers, Bev I'd rather trust the guys in the lab coats who aren't demanding that I get up early on Sundays to apologize for being human. -- Captain Splendid |
| The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Nov 04 11:30AM -0700 On 11/03/2017 07:42 PM, RS Wood wrote: > done? > Mine are, in this order of "I wish I could do it" order > 1. painting Did that, along with minor bodywork repair. Sprayed orange lacquer on my MC tank and chain guard (with a REAL sprayer, not cans), which came out really nice. Fixed a few rust holes on the 55 Chevy with fiberglas and bondo before letting Earl Scheib paint it. The Clymer bodywork manual was definitely worth the money. > 2. alignment > 3. replace/rebuild engine > 4. clutch replacement Does a MC count? > 5. tire mounting and balancing > 6. timing belt > 7. head gasket and vcg Did all the work except milling the heads and final torquing down of head bolts -- I just wasn't strong enough and didn't have a long enough cheater. What's a vcg? > ujoints, pitman/idler arms & tie-rod ends and ball joints, tuneups, > emissions hoses and sensors, exhaust, electrical components, fuel pumps, > and fluids, but not the six things above. Alternators, generators, starters, water pumps, motor mounts, brake pads/drums, hoses, belts. > What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never > done? NONE! I did this stuff because it was cheaper to do it myself. Now I have a used 2013 Corolla and I only looked under the hood when I bought it because someone else lifted it. One of the tires has a slow leak (indicated by a sensor so I don't even have to check!) which I pump back up every month or so, and I do that with a certain amount of resentment. Don't get the cheap $10 Harbor Freight compressor, splurge on the $35 one; trust me.) I tried to re-wind a MC alternator. Local electrical shop loaned me a spool of wire and said to pay for what I used. I gave up after only a few ounces. The guy said that he knew tiny Hispanic women who could do that. They're heroes. -- Cheers, Bev I'd rather trust the guys in the lab coats who aren't demanding that I get up early on Sundays to apologize for being human. -- Captain Splendid |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 03:50PM -0400 >working. I was determined to drive it until it does. Left work one >day, started the car, drove 3 feet and it died. Took the company pickup >home and stopped at a car dealer on the way and bought another car. GMC = GarageMan's Companion. I almost got 100000kn (62000 miles) on a GM "crate" 3800 in my TranSport. I rebuilt the 850 Mini at something lihe 196000 miles. The '53 Coronet Hemi had almost exactly 100,000 miles on it when I got it with a "dead" engine - I rebuilt it. The '57 Fatgo flathead six got a new cyl head (the old one cracked) at about 250,000 miles. I totally rebuilt the 2.6 Mitsu engine in the '85 LeBaron at about 125000 when it snapped the balance shaft chain (that also runs the oil pump) (I bought it as a non-runner) I replaced the heads on the '88 New Yorker 3 liter (also a Mitsu engine - I call 'em Mit-so-shitty" for the second time at about 160,000km - they had been replaced by Chrysler at 100,000 just before I bought it, and were still in good shape when I sold it with 240,000km on it. I replaced the clutch and timing shain at the same time on my '81 Tercel at something like 275000 km - the belt had been changed previously at the dealership ( I think I did it too - can't remember) for the original owner before I bought it. Some engines didn't last vert well at all - and others just wouldn't quit |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 04:02PM -0400 On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 18:17:04 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid> wrote: >> level (bubble level with a laser built into the one end - used to >> "extend" the wheel angle instead of using sticks) works pretty good. >I think toe is easy to measure but hard to change. Actually generally the easiest to change - after you get the tie-rod sleaves un-siezed - - - >Yet you still have to have to reduce the friction when you turn the tierod >ends with the weight of the car (as you discussed above with the greased >plates). I almost always ELIMINATE the friction by jackin the weight off the tire. I'm too "thick" to fit under the car with the wheels on the gr turn the tie-rod sleeves. >think all that much (other than about basic safety, for example, when >compressing springs). >Alignment is a THINKING man's game. Most definitely. Even with the best equipment (Which I HAVE used) |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 04:08PM -0400 On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 18:17:08 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid> wrote: >If they can skip a step or save a minute, they will, but that doesn't mean >that they did a better job. It just means they did a faster job. >At home, you're never trying to do the job fast. That's why my guys were NEVER on Flat Rate - and why independent shops where the owner is "on the floor" are generally the best. >> I cared more about most of my customers' vehicles than they did for >> the 25+ years I was actively in the trade. >This may be true since you saw lots of abuse I'll bet. From customers, dealer principal., AND my mechanics!!! 10 years as service manager can be eye-opening!!! >So, a $5/quart GL-4 80W90 is as good as a $20/quart GL-4 80W90 gear oil. >I don't know clutches but there must be "standard" and "better" clutches, >aren't there? How do you know what the shop puts in by default? The "better" clutch may be better for drag racing or towing a trailer,but may be HELL on your knees in heavy traffic - - - - There is "better" and there is "better" - really depends on what you are looking for. >> technician. >That's understood where a guy who tells me that the bolt isn't necessary >isn't necessarily the right technician, is he? Doesn't sound like it. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 04:13PM -0400 On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 18:17:09 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid> wrote: >Now, it seems, 200K miles is approaching a lot. >Do they really make cars better but nothing else is better? >How can that be? They sure make cars a lot better - experience and technology have made a lot of difference. ( Remember, in 1959, the automobile, as an object, was not as old as a 1959 car is today!!!! The reason just about anything else you buy today is NOT better is everyone wants it CHEAPER and expects to upgrade long before anything with any QUALITY would require replacement. Everything is changing SO FAST. Most people want to buy the latest and greatest even before today's JUNK is worn out. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 04:23PM -0400 On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 18:17:11 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid> wrote: >To me, it's a double crime to put a belt inside an interference engine, >even more than the original crime of putting 60K-mile part inside an engine >in the first place. Oh? used to be the rings and bearings, oil pump, lifters, and half the other moving parts in an engine required replacement within 60,000 miles. And the fuel and ignition system parts in less than half that. Even timing CHAINS and GEARS often required replacement in roughly that time frame. I replaced LOTS of GM timing sprockets long before 60,000 miles - and that was a lot more work than replacing a timing belt. The timing chains on Mitsubishi (Chrysler) 2.6 engines seldom made 100,000 km (60,000 miles) if you followed the "normal" oil change schedule - and they were a LOT of work to change. >If you're gonna put a 60,000-mile part inside an engine, then you should at >least make it easy to access. They are a LOT easier to access than they used to be on many engines. Transverse engines make EVERYTHING harder to change - even on an old Mini. There are a lot of engines that I can change a timing belt on in less than 2 hours - even on my driveway. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 04:25PM -0400 On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 11:25:21 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >> Why would bicycle and motorcycle tires work just fine without dynamic >> balancing while car tires require dynamic balancing to work right? >My guess -- weight and speed are insufficient to cause problems. Many motorcycles run and ride so rough you wouldn't feel the vibration of an out-of-balance tire - and on many of the "cruiser" and "bagger" class of MCs, the tires DO get balanced to provide a smooth ride. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 04 04:28PM -0400 On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 11:30:22 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >Did all the work except milling the heads and final torquing down of >head bolts -- I just wasn't strong enough and didn't have a long enough >cheater. What's a vcg? I'm guessing Valve Cover Gasket |
| Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com>: Nov 04 11:05AM -0700 I have an old floppy disk that I need to recover the files for an old piece of equipment from. Can anyone recommend any program that would likely be able to recover the files from this floppy disk. This is, I suspect, just a problem from age of the disk. |
| mike <ham789@netzero.net>: Nov 04 11:14AM -0700 On 11/4/2017 11:05 AM, Bob F wrote: > piece of equipment from. Can anyone recommend any program that would > likely be able to recover the files from this floppy disk. This is, I > suspect, just a problem from age of the disk. try cleaning the drive or another drive |
| "Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien1@virginmedia.com>: Nov 04 06:15PM "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message news:otkvih$gme$1@dont-email.me... > piece of equipment from. Can anyone recommend any program that would > likely be able to recover the files from this floppy disk. This is, I > suspect, just a problem from age of the disk. Norton Utilities NDD works well for recovering floppies. You need the old 16 bit NU suite - I'd probably build up an old 16 bit PC to go with it as well. You can still find DOS online. Recent issues of the windows OS restrict port access and will probably heavily impact NU - if you want to use Win; You may have to go as far back as Win ME. |
| "Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien1@virginmedia.com>: Nov 04 06:39PM "mike" <ham789@netzero.net> wrote in message news:otl03u$kr5$1@dont-email.me... >> suspect, just a problem from age of the disk. > try cleaning the drive > or another drive There is a Cleaner program that vibrates the heads at ultrasonic frequency that magnifies the effect of felt cleaning disks - but it damages 5.25" drives. It won't work on recent M$ OS because they restrict port access. These sort of jobs are best done on an old machine set up for the purpose. There's online archives containing DOS and early versions of Windows. |
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