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| etpm@whidbey.com: Sep 30 08:48AM -0700 My brother's wife wants a small water heater under the kitchen sink. Not an instant hot water type but one that holds a couple gallons. There is a receptacle under the sink but it also powers the diswasher. I am concerned that if both the dishwasher and the water heater are on at the same time it will pop the breaker. I am looking for a device that will allow the water heater to be on until the diswasher starts drawing a certain amount of current, at which point the power to the heater would be turned off. The power to the dishwasher needs to be on all the time, only the heater should be switched. A switch for the water heater cannot be added. The solution needs to be plug and play and require no input from anyone using the diswasher. It seems to me that something like this must be available but I can't think of what it would be called and my brain is apparently too fuzzy this morning to get google to come up with something for me. I am willing to build the device myself if need be but a purchased product would be better. Thanks, Eric |
| Wond <lost@the.ether.net>: Sep 30 04:27PM On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 08:48:15 -0700, etpm wrote: > product would be better. > Thanks, > Eric If you are in North America, and that is a "duplex" receptacle, its likeley to be an "appliance" outlet, that is, each side wired to a separate breaker. Check the labelling in the box to find out, or measure the voltage between the two "hot" connectors. 230V means you're good to go. |
| etpm@whidbey.com: Sep 30 01:38PM -0700 On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:27:16 -0000 (UTC), Wond <lost@the.ether.net> wrote: >separate breaker. Check the labelling in the box to find out, or measure >the voltage between the two "hot" connectors. 230V means you're good to >go. You may be correct about that being on two circuits. I have my doubts because of the age of the house and because of other flaky things found in his house, but since the wiring SHOULD have been inspected, maybe you are correct. I'll have my brother check. Eric |
| etpm@whidbey.com: Sep 30 01:42PM -0700 On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" >Note that instant-hot water heaters will give you all the hand-use water you want, and nicely support a dishwasher such as it will require minimal use of its on-board heater. >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA Point of use water heaters don't provide enough hot water to wash a load of dishes. But a small water heater will. I use one in my shop. My brother is not gonna add another line because of the expense. I can buy a delay relay that is made for shop vacuum systems that is plug and play, but these devices only delay the turning on by 7 seconds of a load. I need to keep ne load off while the other is on. Eric |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Sep 30 01:48PM -0700 > Note that instant-hot water heaters will give you all the hand-use water you want, and nicely support a dishwasher such as it will require minimal use of its on-board heater. > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA An instant water heater that only takes 7A, whether at 110 or 240v, is not going to produce a lot of hot water. Water heating is energy intensive. And no dishwasher here is designed to support hot water intake. NT |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Sep 30 01:49PM -0700 > DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER this option, most especially if you have any other living things in your household. > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA I see you offer zero basis for this claim. It's just a basic demand management unit. |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Sep 30 04:53PM -0400 In article <f2908cdb-b309-4f82-9386-78564dc3e3db@googlegroups.com>, tabbypurr@gmail.com says... > And no dishwasher here is designed to support hot water intake. My dishwasher said to hook it to the hot water line. |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Sep 30 02:11PM -0700 On Monday, 30 September 2019 21:53:42 UTC+1, Ralph Mowery wrote: > > And no dishwasher here is designed to support hot water intake. > My dishwasher said to hook it to the hot water line. in what country? |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Sep 30 05:39PM -0400 In article <a84408b3-08cf-46f6-98d2-9a3227b9fdc0@googlegroups.com>, tabbypurr@gmail.com says... > > My dishwasher said to hook it to the hot water line. > in what country? In the good old USA . https://www.whirlpool.com/content/dam/global/documents/201608/installati on-instructions-W10806908-RevC.pdf Copy and paste from online manual. WATER SUPPLY REQUIREMENTS ? This dishwasher has a water heating feature and also requires a connection to a hot water supply line. ? A hot water line with 20 to 120 psi (138 to 862 kPa) water pressure can be verified by a licensed plumber. ? 120°F (49°C) water at dishwasher ? |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Sep 30 04:02PM -0700 On Monday, 30 September 2019 22:39:31 UTC+1, Ralph Mowery wrote: > > > My dishwasher said to hook it to the hot water line. > > in what country? > In the good old USA . US washing appliances are quite different to ours. Why I don't know. NT |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Sep 30 07:41PM -0400 In article <35769e99-a32b-4e0b-bb89-0f8e7be8815e@googlegroups.com>, tabbypurr@gmail.com says... > US washing appliances are quite different to ours. Why I don't know. > NT Especially when many of the US appliances are not made in the US any more. |
| Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Sep 30 07:08PM -0500 > And no dishwasher here is designed to support hot water intake. > NT The breadth of your ignorance never fails to amaze me. My dishwasher in the kitchen connect to the hot ware line. And it will NOT run with cold water. -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com |
| whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Sep 30 07:48PM -0700 On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 5:08:11 PM UTC-7, Fox's Mercantile wrote: > The breadth of your ignorance never fails to amaze me. > My dishwasher in the kitchen connect to the hot ware line. > And it will NOT run with cold water. My dishwasher has internal heat for the final rinse (to meet a NSF hot-water final rinse temperature requirement). It worked fine, both washing and rinsing, on cold water (when my water heater was on vacation...) though it is intended to be plumbed into the hotwater line. During the water heater replacement, I removed about 20 feet of rusty iron pipe, replumbed with copper, and the flow is a lot better now. |
| ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net>: Oct 01 01:46AM -0400 On 9/30/2019 12:27 PM, Wond wrote: > separate breaker. Check the labelling in the box to find out, or measure > the voltage between the two "hot" connectors. 230V means you're good to > go. Assuming the wiring is correct: In the USA a standard duplex receptacle is wired for 120 volts. A receptacle wired for 230 (240) will not be a duplex. Ed |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 01 04:18AM -0700 > Point of use water heaters don't provide enough hot water to wash a > load of dishes. Eric: a) Unless you are using a dishwasher from the POS Manufacturing Company, Hangsen, China, it *DOES NOT NEED* very hot water to operate. The on-board heater (NSF requirement) will manage the difference between incoming water temperature and that necessary to clean the dishes. b) And, if you are using a dishwasher made in the last 3 - 5 years, and from a reputable manufacturer, it will use very little water relative to hand-washing. So, if a POU device will be adequate for doing dishes in the sink, it will be equally adequate to supply a dishwasher. As a point of comparison, our 10-year old Bosch (made in Tennessee) uses less than 4 gallons of water in the "Scrub-Paint-From-a-Board" mode, and about 0.870 KW of energy. Nor do we have to pre-wash the dishes. Anything smaller than cherry and softer than a hard nut will be handled. Advanced for its day, commonplace now. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 01 04:32AM -0700 > An instant water heater that only takes 7A, whether at 110 or 240v, is not going to produce a lot of hot water. Water heating is energy intensive. > And no dishwasher here is designed to support hot water intake. Another hip-shot going wild. a) The ECOSmart line here in the USA produces a 7A under-sink unit that produces 1.3 GPM (4.92 LPM) at a 50-degree F (10 C) rise. The idea is not to scald a user (110 F and up). b) Dishwashers rated by the NSF (National Sanitation Foundation) will do the final rinse for a residential dishwasher at 165 F (74 C) minimum. Some go to 180 F as an option. Yes, they are to be required to be connected to the hot water line, if only to reduce stress on the internal heater. http://www.nsf.org/consumer-resources/appliances/dishwashers Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 01 04:33AM -0700 > I see you offer zero basis for this claim. It's just a basic demand management unit. Nope, no basis whatsoever, other than the National Electrical Code as published by the NFPA out of Quincy, MA. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Oct 01 07:58AM -0400 > On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 4:49:08 PM UTC-4, tabb...@gmail.com wrote: >> I see you offer zero basis for this claim. It's just a basic demand management unit. > Nope, no basis whatsoever, other than the National Electrical Code as published by the NFPA out of Quincy, MA. Well, it may be a very bad idea, but the NEC doesn't cover stuff plugged into receptacles, as this dishwasher is. |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 01 05:03AM -0700 On Tuesday, October 1, 2019 at 7:59:16 AM UTC-4, Bob Engelhardt wrote: > Well, it may be a very bad idea, but the NEC doesn't cover stuff plugged > into receptacles, as this dishwasher is. It does cover kludged relays that control line-voltage appliances. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| etpm@whidbey.com: Oct 01 07:23AM -0700 On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 04:18:49 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" >As a point of comparison, our 10-year old Bosch (made in Tennessee) uses less than 4 gallons of water in the "Scrub-Paint-From-a-Board" mode, and about 0.870 KW of energy. Nor do we have to pre-wash the dishes. Anything smaller than cherry and softer than a hard nut will be handled. Advanced for its day, commonplace now. >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA Once again I fail to make myself clear. The water heater is for hand washing dishes, not the diswasher. That's why the heater can be off when the dishwasher is running. In my brother's house dishes are washed more by hand than by dishwasher but bioth get used. Eric |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 01 07:47AM -0700 > when the dishwasher is running. In my brother's house dishes are > washed more by hand than by dishwasher but bioth get used. > Eric Then, even the smallest POU heater will be fine for dishes, as long as the user does not leave it on "BLAST". Keep in mind that the average handwash for two users, one meal, is about 2.75 gallons (10.5 liters) of water. Modern dishwashers use, typically, less than a gallon (2.75 liters). You are over-complicating a rather simple problem. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Oct 01 07:49AM -0700 > when the dishwasher is running. In my brother's house dishes are > washed more by hand than by dishwasher but bioth get used. > Eric An on-demand system would be perfect for him and take up much less space. Why doesn't your brother want an instant demand heater? If it's electrical draw that exceeds the wiring, I'd just snake in new wiring and a new breaker and use the on demand heater. |
| Wond <lost@the.ether.net>: Oct 01 03:10PM On Tue, 01 Oct 2019 01:46:45 -0400, ehsjr wrote: > In the USA a standard duplex receptacle is wired for 120 volts. > A receptacle wired for 230 (240) will not be a duplex. > Ed Where I am, the hardware is the same. The installer simply breaks out the connector tab between the 'hots'. |
| Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Oct 01 05:24AM -0700 > Yeah, I love how some stuff is understated. Like when all those > lithium batteries in laptops were catching on fire. I read a report > where the burning batteries were described as "venting with flame". The batteries, or the Usenet trolls? :) |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Sep 30 03:50PM On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 01:33:31 -0700, Bo-Lennart wrote: > I'm pretty new to this group. Welcome aboard, friend! Unfortunately we have a few nutters here but take my advice and just ignore them. ;-) -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
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