- Mouse Refurbish - 14 Updates
- Tube Testers? - 10 Updates
- Using iOS mobile phone or iPad as a read/write USB device - 1 Update
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Oct 13 02:28PM -0400 In article <p2j6qed71pl09cs4953iauhhsnsjm1fbgc@4ax.com>, Ken@invalid.news.com says... > Each to his own. Mice are very cheap these days. I wouldn't dream of > spending 20 minutes, the cost of new microswitches, soldering iron, > and solder to save $20 or so for a new mouse. I am with you Ken. Some things are just not worth the time and effort. I can see that if someone really likes a particular mouse it is worth it to them to tak half a day repairing a $ 20 item. |
| Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>: Oct 13 11:33AM -0700 On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 14:28:20 -0400, Ralph Mowery >I am with you Ken. Some things are just not worth the time and effort. >I can see that if someone really likes a particular mouse it is worth it >to them to tak half a day repairing a $ 20 item. Half a day? Not me. I'd spend the $20 and just buy a new one. |
| Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>: Oct 13 03:24PM -0400 Patrick wrote: >> shown here; >> http://cordes.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-299.html > And another screw is hidden under the label !! I use a magnetic wand and move it around the base of items like this, to try to verify in advance where the screws are hidden. There's nothing more embarrassing than ripping rubber feet off something and finding "air" underneath :-/ The screws, being ferrous, can sometimes be located with my screw retrieval wand. Sometimes the screws are far enough away from the surface, this can barely detect them. https://www.amazon.com/SE-8036TM-NEW-Telescoping-Magnetic-Capacity/dp/B000RB3XBA And the screw under the label, sometimes the label already has a criss-cross cut pattern in it, to make it easier for the philips screwdriver to get at the screw. A good mouse now, only uses one screw, and one end of the mouse forms a hinge, and the other end has the screw placed in it. But back in the rubber ball mouse era, there could be three screws. The screws are easy to find on one of these :-) It was the Rambo of mice, because it had "steel balls". The rubber ball mice that came after this, were a joke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HawleyMarkIImice.jpg When disassembling the mouse, be particularly wary of the scroll wheel, as the parts may not be "retained" and if you tip the mouse upside-down with the cover off, all sort of junk and little springs will go flying. The mouse cover, is what prevents that from happening normally. 1) Remove screws from bottom of mouse. 2) Tip mouse upright, scroll wheel facing up. 3) Now, remove top cover with captive plastic mouse buttons. 4) Examine what is underneath. Note whether scroll wheel is "booby trapped" to fall apart on you. Paul |
| Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas>: Oct 13 02:59PM -0500 Ken Blake wrote: > Each to his own. Mice are very cheap these days. I wouldn't dream of > spending 20 minutes, the cost of new microswitches, soldering iron, > and solder to save $20 or so for a new mouse. :) I like fixing things. It's sort of a hobby. Ordering a new one for $12 is not nearly as much fun. |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Oct 13 01:44PM -0700 On Sunday, 13 October 2019 20:59:18 UTC+1, Paul in Houston TX wrote: > > and solder to save $20 or so for a new mouse. > :) I like fixing things. It's sort of a hobby. > Ordering a new one for $12 is not nearly as much fun. and a lot of the time you get it, working, there & then. That can be useful, enabling other jobs to be done. But mice I chuck. NT |
| Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 13 08:46PM On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 11:33:50 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: > Half a day? Not me. I'd spend the $20 and just buy a new one. Here, in the Silicon Valley, I know guys who'd rather make money than spend time with their kids, which I think is the wrong perspective. Likewise, I know people who'd rather pay someone to maintain their car, rather than maintain it themselves - again - which doesn't help them when they actually NEED to understand how a vehicle works. I know people who wouldn't fix a mouse - nor help a little old lady cross the road - nor pick up a neighbor's kids from school - all because they can make more money elsewhere. My point is that if it's only about the money - it's generally shallow. o It's also a waste of resources to throw out working stuff. People are so shallow sometimes... it's irksome. Maybe the OP likes to fix things? I mean, there is a "repair" group on the newsgroup list, is there not? |
| Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 13 08:51PM On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 11:33:50 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: > Half a day? Not me. I'd spend the $20 and just buy a new one. A lot of people would rather make money than spend time with their kids. Some of us enjoy fixing things for lots of reasons. o Sometimes, it just fits right - in our hands, for example. It's not always only about money. o If it's only about money, it's shallow (IMHO). For example, I enjoy fixing my car - and the cars of my kids - where I change their oil, replace the clutch, do the brakes, overhaul the cooling system, and even select, purchase, mount and balance their tires. When you do stuff like that - you LEARN a lot. o You learn a lot that others don't learn who are only out for the money. For example, I enjoy setting up WiFi access points, for free, for my neighbors. I learn a lot when I do that. In fact, while there's an ongoing thread on that very topic, those who know the least seem to have infested that thread the most in the last few hours. The fact remains, if the OP wants to fix his mouse ... then we should try to help him (if we can). It's not "advice" to say to pay for a new mouse. Do you think even for a second that the OP doesn't know that? o If the OP was _that_ shallow - he wouldn't have asked the question. |
| Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 13 08:54PM On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 20:51:24 -0000 (UTC), Arlen _G_ Holder wrote: > Do you think even for a second that the OP doesn't know that? > o If the OP was _that_ shallow - he wouldn't have asked the question. Sorry for the hiccup. The machine crashed and the scripts must have still run. I don't use a newsreader... it's just vi with telnet scripts. Mea culpa. BTW, if the OP needs pictures, I have plenty of my IBM mouse refurbish. <https://i.postimg.cc/5tr2SxsL/mouse02.jpg> |
| Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>: Oct 13 04:08PM -0500 On 2019-10-13 3:54 p.m., Arlen _G_ Holder wrote: > Mea culpa. > BTW, if the OP needs pictures, I have plenty of my IBM mouse refurbish. > <https://i.postimg.cc/5tr2SxsL/mouse02.jpg> Is that one of the mice that came over on the Ark? Male or Female? :-) Rene |
| Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>: Oct 13 05:20PM -0400 Rene Lamontagne wrote: >> <https://i.postimg.cc/5tr2SxsL/mouse02.jpg> > Is that one of the mice that came over on the Ark? Male or Female? :-) > Rene That's a one-screw mouse, so it can't be that old. ******* This article, has a picture of the Hawley mouse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse And that was my first mouse. Apparently made around 1975. Steel balls on the outside. A little small for your hand (because it doesn't have a scroll wheel or give a rats ass about ergonomy). And your next problem would be, if you found an old one, the interface is neither USB nor PS/2, and instead, gives "pulses" for +/-X and +/-Y. So you need to whip together some counter circuits to make something a bit better for your OS to use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HawleyMarkIImice.jpg But still, a nice mouse, and not surpassed until the second generation of optical mice meant never ever again having to worry about what the mouse was resting on. Or how dirty the place was... Paul |
| Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>: Oct 13 04:35PM -0500 On 2019-10-13 4:20 p.m., Paul wrote: > again having to worry about what the mouse was resting > on. Or how dirty the place was... > Paul The micro switches are quite large compared to now, Is that a Pot sticking up where the wheel should be? or is it an actuator for the center button? Rene |
| "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>: Oct 13 11:25PM +0100 In message <qnvvmj$kqe$1@dont-email.me>, Paul in Houston TX >Ken Blake wrote: [] >> Each to his own. Mice are very cheap these days. I wouldn't dream of >> spending 20 minutes, the cost of new microswitches, soldering iron, >> and solder to save $20 or so for a new mouse. That's assuming the model the OP likes is still available; I think he thought it wasn't, but someone here found them. >:) I like fixing things. It's sort of a hobby. >Ordering a new one for $12 is not nearly as much fun. I share that hobby: I'll certainly spend more time than a thing is worth trying to fix it, if I think the fault is something simple: the throwaway philosophy bugs me. I'll admit, I give up a lot sooner now than I used to, though. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf The motto of the Royal Society is: 'Take nobody's word for it'. Scepticism has value. - Brian Cox, RT 2015/3/14-20 |
| Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>: Oct 13 08:33PM -0400 Rene Lamontagne wrote: > sticking up where the wheel should be? > or is it an actuator for the center button? > Rene The IBM mouse above, the microswitches look "normal" sized to me. The thing in the center, I had to use the mouse cover to guess at the function. It looks like a rubber nubbin, and that would make the thing on the PCB, some sort of 2D strain gauge. But there's also what looks like a LED next to it, and the LED is not pointed in any specific direction. It could be for illuminating the rubber nubbin, as I don't see any other function it could carry out, considering the angle it is pointed. This isn't the same item, but it's along the same lines. "Trackpoint mouse" https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=121 https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=120 Paul |
| Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>: Oct 13 08:04PM -0500 On 2019-10-13 7:33 p.m., Paul wrote: > https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=121 > https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=120 > Paul OK, that makes sense. Thanks. Rene |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Oct 13 02:23PM -0400 In article <5f92671f-9d51-421b-a60c-133e41a5c8f0@googlegroups.com>, tabbypurr@gmail.com says... > > Does identify terminals in transistors accurately though. > No-one would accuse them of being quality items, but very handy nonetheless. I hear there is a new version now & then with ever more functionality. What is interisting is a company called Peak makes several versions for around $ 100. The cheat people that are not informed. One device only tests the solid state devices and the other tests restiors, capacitors and inductors. That way you are forced to buy two of the units. They are practically the same as the all in one $ 20 device in a fancy case. They are not lab quality instruments but for $ 20 they work very well at the hobby grade. As far as forming capacitors, if the capacitor is over 20 years old and there is any doubt, just replace it. I have read that new capacitors are formed at the factory at a slightly higher voltage because they will deterioate just sitting on the shelf. Those may be worth while bringing the voltage up slow on if they have been on the shelf for a long period of time |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Oct 13 01:39PM -0700 On Sunday, 13 October 2019 19:23:59 UTC+1, Ralph Mowery wrote: > the hobby grade. > As far as forming capacitors, if the capacitor is over 20 years old and > there is any doubt, just replace it. A lot of people have that approach. Whether replacing sound historic caps with new ones that likely won't last is a good plan is debated. > deterioate just sitting on the shelf. Those may be worth while bringing > the voltage up slow on if they have been on the shelf for a long period > of time same happens to old caps. Doesn't mean they're dud. NT |
| peter wieck <peterwieck9@gmail.com>: Oct 13 02:35PM -0700 RANT WARNING! On tube testers - with the exception of very modern testers that will plot curves on a PC, effectively there are two types of testers and within each type, two tiers. A top-tier emissions-tester is good for 99-44/100ths of most hobby uses. It is, for the record, very nearly as good as a second-tier GM tester. Better in some few cases. A top-tier emissions tester will also test (reasonably accurately) for "SHORTS" and "GAS" - which functions are what separate a tester from the device itself. Reject any tester out of hand if it does not do shorts and gas. It is useless in actual practice. A Heath TC-2/3 and many others will meet the most basic needs of the hobbyist. Prices for Emissions-Only testers are, perhaps, 20% of the price of a GM tester, all other things being equal. A standard GM tester will also test for shorts and gas - some better than others. By virtue of being a GM tester, such a unit will give a >RELATIVE< indication of actual tube quality against a narrow set of fixed parameters. That information is very nearly useless *unless* one has known-good tubes with which to compare readings. Now, a top-tier GM tester (and there are very, very few) will allow one to set bias, read filament current, plate current, and - thereby - allow one to actually match tubes accurately. An example of such would be the Hickok 539 series. But NOT (emphatically) a TV7, however popular and expensive it might be. Unless one is seriously into audio and has an actual need to match tubes and/or do qualitative testing, don't waste your money on such a tester. And, if one is as deeply in as all that, look into the modern testers with curve-tracers and so forth. Big bucks. Or, if, as I did, you should trip over a fully calibrated 539B, grab it. But, at the going rate of $1,000 and up, not so much. Now, on WHY: A tube with a short - especially a thermally dependent short can do great harm if it fails in-situ and without the operator right there with the instant shut-down device. A slagged rectifier tube, for instance, can take out a power-transformer in seconds. And why it is that a certain tubes should be tested for some time on a tester to look for thermal faults. Open filaments are seldom a threat, but shorts really, really are. And, a thermal short will NOT show up with a VOM testing at the pins. A tube tester is handy. It allows one to develop a stock of good, trustworthy tubes such that when 'at work' one may simply substitute-and-test-later without agonizing. One also avoids cascade-effects, where a series of weak tubes give symptoms not attributable to any one (or two) tubes. A good example of such would be a multi-band radio that is perfectly fine on AM, but weak on SW, or silent on FM, if so-equipped. So, Eric, out there on your island - if you want a tube tester, DO NOT go out there on eBay. DO go either to a trusted dealer - there are several - and expect to pay a premium for a good, clean, warranted device. OR, go to a trusted friend who is more in harm's way than you might be, and use him/her as a bird-dog for you. At Kutztown, there are never less than 30 - 50 tube testers on-offer, of which more than 80% of them are not worth the cost of plugging them in. Of the remaining 20% most of them are too much work to make reliable. Of those few remaining, they can be gems. But, I would guarantee that if one were to attend two sequential events, and have a budget of $200 or so (inclusive of shipping), one would wind up with a fully functional device with the correct literature to cover most of the tubes you will encounter in this hobby. End Rant Some other points: a) An individual primarily working with instrument amplifiers as an example, will have a very limited universe of tubes to test. For that individual, a full-range tester will be heavily compromised due to its all-things-to-all-people requirement. That person needs a specialty tester. Those who routinely use, maybe, 10 kinds of tubes, but whose collection uses well over 200 kinds of tubes might be a bit hamstrung by a specialty tester. b) There are those here that are genuinely dangerous, and should be strung up by their thumbs from the nearest lamppost for the advice they give. Have the wisdom to discern the issues involved. c) And there are those here with specific prejudices, peculiarities and expectations - some more hostile than others. I more-or-less fit into this category at times. Same advice as above. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Oct 13 04:36PM -0500 > A lot of people have that approach. Whether replacing sound > historic caps with new ones that likely won't last is a good > plan is debated. > NT And still, you persist in this stupidity. Quality electrolytics these days are quite reliable and long lived. Unless you're buying cheap counterfeits from China. I've been repairing (which includes blanket recaps) for the past 25 years now, I have yet to have a customer bring back a radio because a cap failed. Which is exactly why I do what I do. -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Oct 13 04:08PM -0700 On Sunday, 13 October 2019 22:36:21 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote: > I've been repairing (which includes blanket recaps) for the > past 25 years now, I have yet to have a customer bring back a > radio because a cap failed. That's one side of the recap all or not debate, and of course new caps don't fail in short order. The OP is free to find out why some of us don't do that. I tire of your stupidity. NT |
| Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Oct 13 06:17PM -0500 > free to find out why some of us don't do that. I tire of > your stupidity. > NT Bwahahaha, I could have sworn you kill filed me dear. Obviously you lied about that too. Let's see how you talk your way out of this. -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com |
| Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Oct 13 06:19PM -0500 > The OP is free to find out why some of us don't do that. The answer is obvious. You're hack. Too lazy to do a job correctly and you find infinite ways to justify your position. -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 13 04:42PM -0700 peter wieck who has a serious mental disability wrote: ------------------------------------------------------ > RANT WARNING! ** Nice warning - plus thoroughly needed. ( snip the whole stupid lot ) > Some other points: > a) An individual primarily working with instrument amplifiers as an example, will have a very limited universe of tubes to test. For that individual, a full-range tester will be heavily compromised due to its all-things-to-all-people requirement. That person needs a specialty tester. ** That person needs to BUILD their own as none exist already. Or, do as has been done by technicians ever since the invention of radios and TV sets - use the item under repair as the tube tester. Conditions met in commercial equipment regularly exceed the ones built into so called tube testers - most of which are useless when it comes to revealing common faults and shortcomings in particular tubes that show up readily when placed into actual service. ** Makers of various tube testing devices DO NOT claim the miraculous abilities that so many fuckwit owners of them try to claim. ** > b) There are those here that are genuinely dangerous, and should be > strung up by their thumbs from the nearest lamppost for the advice they give. ** Boy oh boy - is Mr Weaky ever one of them. Dangerous, mostly because the geriatric fool has NO fucking idea how mindlessly arrogant and stupid he is. .... Phil |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 13 05:28PM -0700 You are to be pitied, sadly. But, respected, not so much. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Oct 14 12:35AM On Sun, 13 Oct 2019 13:39:57 -0700, tabbypurr wrote: > A lot of people have that approach. Whether replacing sound historic > caps with new ones that likely won't last is a good plan is debated. Absolutely. I've just tested some big old electros that are well over 40 years old and they're all *totally* fine by any measure. Good, high quality manufacturers of the day and built to last. I would not want to take a chance on replacing them with new stuff that could be fake from the far East. In fact I don't even trust new electros from formerly respected manufacturers if they've turned production over to places like China. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 13 05:26PM -0700 Don't feed the Troll! |
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